I"m printing out this essay, keeping it close to my desk. Definitely pining it to a cork board if I ever get one. And it makes me want to go on retreat with you, sit at your feet and say "tell me everything". One reading is not enough. This is the kind of essay that deserves re-read after re-read. These foundational points of writing never change. It's us, we get to revisit them and grow some more. Thanks for re-posting, Jeannine. You knocked it out of the park as far as I'm concerned!
Sara, thank you so so much. And maybe we will retreat together. I am working something up for Writing in the Dark in fall, 2025. Wouldn't it be lovely to write together in the real world?! xoxo
It absolutely would. I'd offer to help you put it together but I live in Paris and not much help over here!! But I will be pain and keep reminding you :-)
I appreciated this so much the first time I read it, and am appreciating it again now. It really helped my writing come alive— so much of what I write is about those in between states of consciousness and dreams (internal spaces!) and the prompt to describe in more concrete detail (and make them a real place that the reader could inhabit) changed everything. I keep these wise words in mind as I revise too, have I really shown it? Am I rushing to “make a point” when I could instead let the reader come to their own point? Lots of deleting lol.
I mean…I could go on, but really it’s fantastic advice for any writer regardless of style and theme.
I totally agree with all of this, but especially the part about words/images fighting for attention. Such writing never strikes me as genuine, ie as not coming from the person, but the persona they imagine a writer to embody. I hope that makes sense!
It 100% makes sense. Elmore Leonard said, "If it sounds like writing, I rewrite it." I want to read writing that sounds real, like a real voice, which, I know from personal experience, can take a lot of time and care to craft. It is an illusion to write plainly, as much as it is to write via a persona of writerly language. But I prefer the former. I want to hear that voice and believe it, not see the writing.
Yes, I call them writerly cartwheels, haha. And to be clear, there can be a great joy in writing that is intentionally maximalist, writing that boldly breaks this rule and unapologetically seeks after excess. But, it must be done--well. This speaks to my maxim that you can do it, if you can do it. Most of us, most of the time, are better served by worker words lined up in a clear way, a way that sounds like a person is leaning over a table, looking straight into our eyes, and saying, "So, I ..."
Key words-- must be done well. Maybe this goes back to the Nin quote-- I don't see myself in that type of writing so I pull away. PS-- I admire those who are adept at that craft. I am not. If I tried it would be a disaster.
And I have a prompt for this kind of ecstatic, maximalist writing, in case you ever want to dip your toe in, let yourself be VERY free, make a big mess, and see what happens! In spite of all my passions for this way and that way, I am a huge believer in the benefits of writing against our own grain, just to see what we don't yet know about ourselves as writers. I guess that's another post for another day, so thanks, CK! https://writinginthedark.substack.com/p/appreciation-is-a-wonderful-thing
Because I didn't, either, until I read some that I really, really loved. Then I realized, that's not my sweet spot, but damn I'm going to put it in my wheelhouse. Try this piece, for example. https://theamericanscholar.org/joyas-volardores/
As Anaïs Nin famously put it, “We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are.” Therefore, the more closely you can observe and record the world outside of yourself—without making it into a story and/or making it into something about you—the more successful you will likely be, ultimately, in writing a compelling story and/or revealing something profound about yourself.
This post is sooo helpful and soooo stretching my mind and heart!!! Thank you Jeannine. I appreciate the points on external vs internal; the quote from Anais Nin is permeating deeply, causing a little earthquake in my understanding of my writing going forward. i think the idea is if I focus on detailed, concrete descriptions of my external world, the words themselves will at least partially convey my emotional response to what i am describing. That is more interesting and exciting to a reader than me using words to describe my feelings. And appreciating that the choice and ordering of words, in and of themselves, can only come from my unique perspective on the world based on my lived experience. Am i on track with a basic understanding? Thanks again Jeannine.
I am very very glad you see all this, Cindy! And that you find it helpful. I have seen you in The Visceral Self, and this will give you so much to build on in that intensive, this awareness of the profound value, and hidden (but not so hidden) meaning in exterior details. Yay!! After all, what is embodiment, in the end, if not, at least in part, attention?
Well, yes, if we are writing fiction, that is what we must do. But I think the issue of exteriority still applies. It's just different, but still at work.
Jeannine, thank you so much for republishing this essay, as I wasn't yet on Substack, let alone a subscriber, when it originally appeared. I'm wrangling over the meaning of this passage for the nonfiction book I'm working on right now: "The more closely you can observe and record the world outside of yourself—without making it into a story and/or making it into something about you—the more successful you will likely be, ultimately, in writing a compelling story and/or revealing something profound about yourself." My personal, first-person experience as I went about collecting the material for this nonfiction book is as critical to the story I'm telling as the material itself. But talking in first person would be in service of a greater purpose that is outside of me, i.e. it surfaces notions that help make sense of what the outside world told me, what we can make of it. I'm not sure how to make this less vague without going into the specifics, but the bottom line question is: do/can different boundaries apply to nonfiction writing when it comes to internal vs external?
You can for sure tell your story in first person! I wrote my memoir in first person. And you can for sure use interiority! I did, as well. The problem I see is that many writers rely too heavily on interiority, and do not turn their gaze outward, to pay close attention to the world itself, and the specific, concrete details of the world itself. Those details are not only crucial to story (story cannot, I think, exist without them--except maybe highly experimental stream of consciousness story), but they are also laden with meaning, if we can be still enough, and patient enough, to let that meaning emerge. Many writers are fascinated with looking within, and bored by looking without. But we really must train ourselves to see the world as it is, separate from us. Paradoxically, that will also reveal ... ourselves to ourselves.
Thank you, thank you, this helps me a lot. I think I rationally understand where talking about oneself crosses reasonable narrative boundaries, but then when it comes to my own writing, I end up second guessing myself - I guess for fear of being "accused" of talking about myself for no reason. But I know very well I have a reason, and that reason is not me - it's the world I approached with my research. Thanks again for taking the time to reply!
You DO have a reason. I am NOT in the anti-personal writing camp! Most of my writing is CNF about my life. I LOVE personal writing. But I do not usually enjoy writing that sounds like, well, journaling, that sounds like someone is caught in a tangle of their own thoughts and feelings. I want a writer to have done the work of engaging with the outside world enough to have discovered that all the stories we want to tell already live there. We need to look closely enough to see/hear/smell/touch/taste them. Then, we can build out from there. Often we need to find these exterior details in the houses of memory. And that's fine, but requires stillness, attention, patience, and care. They will emerge for us. They are there. A broken glass might convey violence better than the narrator saying "I was scared." A cowering dog, the same. We can look more closely, is, in the end, what I am saying, and let the world come alive, let it speak.
One more thing, Enrica! I find all of this much easier to teach by doing. When I teach synchronously, writers are always producing small things--like, usually, not more than 500 words, so that we can really "see what we are doing." All writing is built of parts, and I find that focusing on the parts helps strengthen the whole because we can practice this or that thing in a small part, than take that to the whole. I hope that makes sense!
You're welcome, Imola. I like to re-surface this one a couple of times a year, for folks who are new here, because it captures a lot of my foundational philosophy as a working writer-artist. In that way, I hope it is useful xoxoxo
I take it all back. Check out Sherman Alexie's just-published 'stack. He breaks every rule in the book, and produces a jaw-dropping essay. Of course, that doesn't mean he doesn't love rules. Loves them enough to know exactly how to break them.
This is the incredible post that brought me here, so the point about beginnings is spot on today. I would rewrite what I thought I was subscribing to by saying that each of those points is so vast and so rewarding to explore in depth in the challenges, intensives, and the comments. I recognize them, and so many of you here, as friends now, but that is not to say I know them. That is the rich and ongoing practice we engage in as a community. I did not know what I was getting into, but it called me. I had no clue how it would shape me and change my writing, but I am better for it, and very very vocal about my gratitude because the writing journey and life journey are inextricably woven together for me. That Anais Nin quote is spot on for me today.
This was an unbelievably generous essay that I will revisit. I came across some writing advice that said the idea can be big and complex but it must be communicated with the simplest writing possible. Thank you again...instant subscriber.
Thank you for sharing about the essence of writing. There's a lot in the essay. Definitely a resource to read regularly as a reminder of what good writing makes it so.
That is music to my ears! I work with faculty at the U of MN in my day job, and teach Writing for Public Health, and I take great joy in introducing academics to some of these principles, which can, if they allow, transform their relationship to writing and bring them so much more pleasure and surprise in the process. Yay!
I am new to writing. I wrote a post last week and I knew it inside when I posted it, that it wasn't crafted well. But not being a writer (more a painter artist) I didn't know how to make it different.
Reading this has really opened my eyes although there is so much to digest and as writing isn't my first love, I'm not sure I'll ever get to grips with all that you tell. But I've found it fascinating to read and will try to take on some of the lessons you so generously share.
As a side note, I love the poetry of Wendell Berry.
One more thing, Susan: I am really speaking here in this post about literary work, or work that strives to be in conversation with writing as an art just like music, painting, dance, etc. Newsletters don't have to be that! We can just ... write a post. We can not put too much pressure on ourselves!!
I love that you can say writing is not your first love. It's so honest. I think painting is some of the best preparation for writing, though. Writing is just painting with words. It's a practice, it's a slow one I love Wendell Berry, too! The Peace of Wild Things ... saves me.
It's is Jeannine, exactly that. I'm an intuition painter and so it is words from my soul, the deepest part of me that is transformed into paint on a canvas. And yes to practice, I have a great deal to learn but I also want to keep it as from me if that makes sense. I can be articulate but not very ordered ... a bit all over the place I guess. It is part post menopausal brain combined with my artist brain! It would be good to tame this somewhat though.
This is the book I have too. I find The Peace of Wild Things like a balm. If you have any other recommendations I would love that.
Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and insights with me 😊
I"m printing out this essay, keeping it close to my desk. Definitely pining it to a cork board if I ever get one. And it makes me want to go on retreat with you, sit at your feet and say "tell me everything". One reading is not enough. This is the kind of essay that deserves re-read after re-read. These foundational points of writing never change. It's us, we get to revisit them and grow some more. Thanks for re-posting, Jeannine. You knocked it out of the park as far as I'm concerned!
Sara, thank you so so much. And maybe we will retreat together. I am working something up for Writing in the Dark in fall, 2025. Wouldn't it be lovely to write together in the real world?! xoxo
It absolutely would. I'd offer to help you put it together but I live in Paris and not much help over here!! But I will be pain and keep reminding you :-)
Well I would sure love to visit you in Paris someday!
And you would sure be welcome!!!
I appreciated this so much the first time I read it, and am appreciating it again now. It really helped my writing come alive— so much of what I write is about those in between states of consciousness and dreams (internal spaces!) and the prompt to describe in more concrete detail (and make them a real place that the reader could inhabit) changed everything. I keep these wise words in mind as I revise too, have I really shown it? Am I rushing to “make a point” when I could instead let the reader come to their own point? Lots of deleting lol.
I mean…I could go on, but really it’s fantastic advice for any writer regardless of style and theme.
Gratitude to you Jeannine!
I'm so, so glad it's useful, Mikella.
I totally agree with all of this, but especially the part about words/images fighting for attention. Such writing never strikes me as genuine, ie as not coming from the person, but the persona they imagine a writer to embody. I hope that makes sense!
It 100% makes sense. Elmore Leonard said, "If it sounds like writing, I rewrite it." I want to read writing that sounds real, like a real voice, which, I know from personal experience, can take a lot of time and care to craft. It is an illusion to write plainly, as much as it is to write via a persona of writerly language. But I prefer the former. I want to hear that voice and believe it, not see the writing.
Exactly! Thanks for the Leonard quote.
Agree. The writer loses me if she's doing too many backflips.
Yes, I call them writerly cartwheels, haha. And to be clear, there can be a great joy in writing that is intentionally maximalist, writing that boldly breaks this rule and unapologetically seeks after excess. But, it must be done--well. This speaks to my maxim that you can do it, if you can do it. Most of us, most of the time, are better served by worker words lined up in a clear way, a way that sounds like a person is leaning over a table, looking straight into our eyes, and saying, "So, I ..."
Key words-- must be done well. Maybe this goes back to the Nin quote-- I don't see myself in that type of writing so I pull away. PS-- I admire those who are adept at that craft. I am not. If I tried it would be a disaster.
And I have a prompt for this kind of ecstatic, maximalist writing, in case you ever want to dip your toe in, let yourself be VERY free, make a big mess, and see what happens! In spite of all my passions for this way and that way, I am a huge believer in the benefits of writing against our own grain, just to see what we don't yet know about ourselves as writers. I guess that's another post for another day, so thanks, CK! https://writinginthedark.substack.com/p/appreciation-is-a-wonderful-thing
Of course you have a post about it! ❤️ Thank you! I will try on the shoes that are too big for me. Hehe. Ya never know.
Oh, look at you! You are such a good writer! "Try on the shoes that are too big for me." I love that so much.
You mean, you don't see yourself in the maximalist writing?
Because I didn't, either, until I read some that I really, really loved. Then I realized, that's not my sweet spot, but damn I'm going to put it in my wheelhouse. Try this piece, for example. https://theamericanscholar.org/joyas-volardores/
Exactly.
As Anaïs Nin famously put it, “We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are.” Therefore, the more closely you can observe and record the world outside of yourself—without making it into a story and/or making it into something about you—the more successful you will likely be, ultimately, in writing a compelling story and/or revealing something profound about yourself.
This post is sooo helpful and soooo stretching my mind and heart!!! Thank you Jeannine. I appreciate the points on external vs internal; the quote from Anais Nin is permeating deeply, causing a little earthquake in my understanding of my writing going forward. i think the idea is if I focus on detailed, concrete descriptions of my external world, the words themselves will at least partially convey my emotional response to what i am describing. That is more interesting and exciting to a reader than me using words to describe my feelings. And appreciating that the choice and ordering of words, in and of themselves, can only come from my unique perspective on the world based on my lived experience. Am i on track with a basic understanding? Thanks again Jeannine.
I am very very glad you see all this, Cindy! And that you find it helpful. I have seen you in The Visceral Self, and this will give you so much to build on in that intensive, this awareness of the profound value, and hidden (but not so hidden) meaning in exterior details. Yay!! After all, what is embodiment, in the end, if not, at least in part, attention?
I love the Anaiis Nin quote but also wonder if the trick is to put yourself in the MC's shoes in order to truly ride their journey.
Well, yes, if we are writing fiction, that is what we must do. But I think the issue of exteriority still applies. It's just different, but still at work.
Jeannine, thank you so much for republishing this essay, as I wasn't yet on Substack, let alone a subscriber, when it originally appeared. I'm wrangling over the meaning of this passage for the nonfiction book I'm working on right now: "The more closely you can observe and record the world outside of yourself—without making it into a story and/or making it into something about you—the more successful you will likely be, ultimately, in writing a compelling story and/or revealing something profound about yourself." My personal, first-person experience as I went about collecting the material for this nonfiction book is as critical to the story I'm telling as the material itself. But talking in first person would be in service of a greater purpose that is outside of me, i.e. it surfaces notions that help make sense of what the outside world told me, what we can make of it. I'm not sure how to make this less vague without going into the specifics, but the bottom line question is: do/can different boundaries apply to nonfiction writing when it comes to internal vs external?
You can for sure tell your story in first person! I wrote my memoir in first person. And you can for sure use interiority! I did, as well. The problem I see is that many writers rely too heavily on interiority, and do not turn their gaze outward, to pay close attention to the world itself, and the specific, concrete details of the world itself. Those details are not only crucial to story (story cannot, I think, exist without them--except maybe highly experimental stream of consciousness story), but they are also laden with meaning, if we can be still enough, and patient enough, to let that meaning emerge. Many writers are fascinated with looking within, and bored by looking without. But we really must train ourselves to see the world as it is, separate from us. Paradoxically, that will also reveal ... ourselves to ourselves.
Thank you, thank you, this helps me a lot. I think I rationally understand where talking about oneself crosses reasonable narrative boundaries, but then when it comes to my own writing, I end up second guessing myself - I guess for fear of being "accused" of talking about myself for no reason. But I know very well I have a reason, and that reason is not me - it's the world I approached with my research. Thanks again for taking the time to reply!
You DO have a reason. I am NOT in the anti-personal writing camp! Most of my writing is CNF about my life. I LOVE personal writing. But I do not usually enjoy writing that sounds like, well, journaling, that sounds like someone is caught in a tangle of their own thoughts and feelings. I want a writer to have done the work of engaging with the outside world enough to have discovered that all the stories we want to tell already live there. We need to look closely enough to see/hear/smell/touch/taste them. Then, we can build out from there. Often we need to find these exterior details in the houses of memory. And that's fine, but requires stillness, attention, patience, and care. They will emerge for us. They are there. A broken glass might convey violence better than the narrator saying "I was scared." A cowering dog, the same. We can look more closely, is, in the end, what I am saying, and let the world come alive, let it speak.
One more thing, Enrica! I find all of this much easier to teach by doing. When I teach synchronously, writers are always producing small things--like, usually, not more than 500 words, so that we can really "see what we are doing." All writing is built of parts, and I find that focusing on the parts helps strengthen the whole because we can practice this or that thing in a small part, than take that to the whole. I hope that makes sense!
Great points (reminders)! And some of my favourite poets as examples…. :) Thank you Jeannine!
You're welcome, Imola. I like to re-surface this one a couple of times a year, for folks who are new here, because it captures a lot of my foundational philosophy as a working writer-artist. In that way, I hope it is useful xoxoxo
Yep. There's two kinds of keyboarders. Those who love rules, and the rest. Only the first are writers.
You need to write a book called, "There Are Two Kinds Of...." Your observations are spot on. :)
I take it all back. Check out Sherman Alexie's just-published 'stack. He breaks every rule in the book, and produces a jaw-dropping essay. Of course, that doesn't mean he doesn't love rules. Loves them enough to know exactly how to break them.
Yes to this. Which is why I say, You can do it, if you can do it. That's really the ONLY rule of writing.
This is the incredible post that brought me here, so the point about beginnings is spot on today. I would rewrite what I thought I was subscribing to by saying that each of those points is so vast and so rewarding to explore in depth in the challenges, intensives, and the comments. I recognize them, and so many of you here, as friends now, but that is not to say I know them. That is the rich and ongoing practice we engage in as a community. I did not know what I was getting into, but it called me. I had no clue how it would shape me and change my writing, but I am better for it, and very very vocal about my gratitude because the writing journey and life journey are inextricably woven together for me. That Anais Nin quote is spot on for me today.
Ah I am so so glad you found this, and me, and us, Emily. And that's it for me to. Writing = life, Life = writing. xoxo
Xoxoxo
This is pure gold. Thank you Jeannine.
Thanks, Ela!!
This was an unbelievably generous essay that I will revisit. I came across some writing advice that said the idea can be big and complex but it must be communicated with the simplest writing possible. Thank you again...instant subscriber.
Amazing. I am glad it was useful, Terry, and glad you are here.
This is an excellent list! Thank you, Jeannine Oulelette, for putting into words those things that spark when we get something right!
Yay, thanks for sharing that, Mary!
Thank you for sharing about the essence of writing. There's a lot in the essay. Definitely a resource to read regularly as a reminder of what good writing makes it so.
What an inspiring and informing piece. Thank you. Even though I am writing an academic thesis I can use much of what you teach in your post.
That is music to my ears! I work with faculty at the U of MN in my day job, and teach Writing for Public Health, and I take great joy in introducing academics to some of these principles, which can, if they allow, transform their relationship to writing and bring them so much more pleasure and surprise in the process. Yay!
I am new to writing. I wrote a post last week and I knew it inside when I posted it, that it wasn't crafted well. But not being a writer (more a painter artist) I didn't know how to make it different.
Reading this has really opened my eyes although there is so much to digest and as writing isn't my first love, I'm not sure I'll ever get to grips with all that you tell. But I've found it fascinating to read and will try to take on some of the lessons you so generously share.
As a side note, I love the poetry of Wendell Berry.
One more thing, Susan: I am really speaking here in this post about literary work, or work that strives to be in conversation with writing as an art just like music, painting, dance, etc. Newsletters don't have to be that! We can just ... write a post. We can not put too much pressure on ourselves!!
Thank you Jeannine I've really enjoyed reading your thoughts.
I love that you can say writing is not your first love. It's so honest. I think painting is some of the best preparation for writing, though. Writing is just painting with words. It's a practice, it's a slow one I love Wendell Berry, too! The Peace of Wild Things ... saves me.
It's is Jeannine, exactly that. I'm an intuition painter and so it is words from my soul, the deepest part of me that is transformed into paint on a canvas. And yes to practice, I have a great deal to learn but I also want to keep it as from me if that makes sense. I can be articulate but not very ordered ... a bit all over the place I guess. It is part post menopausal brain combined with my artist brain! It would be good to tame this somewhat though.
This is the book I have too. I find The Peace of Wild Things like a balm. If you have any other recommendations I would love that.
Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and insights with me 😊
Thank you for this, Jeannine!
You are so welcome. I figured it might be useful to those following along in Visceral Self, so therefore, the archival decision today!
Archives are fun! All good guidance and practices.
Love this! Great points. I'm inspired. 🙏🏻
Awesome, CK. Thanks for letting me know that!! I always love seeing you here.